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The Perceived Problem of Homosexual Marriage And Liberty

August 1, 2012

Freedom loving folks such as myself are often criticized for being against homosexual marriage, that is the recognition by both church and state of a permanent union equal to that of a man and a woman in the covenant of marriage. We catch flack because on one hand we support nearly unlimited individual liberty and freedom, while on the other hand we oppose things like homosexual marriage.

So what gives? Why would otherwise freedom loving people want to stop other folks from doing stuff like getting married that doesn’t directly affect them?

The answer is simple, because it actually does affect us, first off by forcing the state to recognize homosexual marriage; you are basically making the entire culture accept as normal what is viewed by a vast majority of the population as an abhorrent and abnormal way of life. No one I know of, with a few crazy exceptions want to make being gay a crime or otherwise try and force folks out of that lifestyle. There is a pretty decent argument to be made to keep the government out of the marriage thing altogether, but that isn’t going to happen as long as we have a tax code.

Anyhow the problem here isn’t the actions; it’s the mentality of everyone else. Gay marriage proponents want all of us, Christians, Muslims, Jews and everyone else in this nation to be forced to say that homosexuality is normal and just as good as being heterosexual, or you know, normal, which is basically making millions of us speak against our religion. Because all of these religions teach very specifically that homosexuality as a lifestyle is a sin, wrong and/or evil.

We don’t want to make, force or coerce anyone out of their chosen lifestyle, but we also refuse to accept as normal, good or right just any old thing that comes down the pipe. If you want to be gay, into BDSM, or inverted pickup trucks I don’t care, I also don’t want to hear about it, and I damn well don’t want you telling my kids or anyone else’s about it without the parent’s very specific approval.

And lest we be remiss and pass over the religious, to force churches to accept homosexual marriage is literally to re-write the bible. Romans, 1 Timothy, Jude, Leviticus, and Deuteronomy all specifically deal with homosexuality and decry it as wrong. It is important to note however that in Romans 1 homosexuality is not simply a sin, but a judgment against especially sinful or fallen nations or peoples, which we certainly are. To force us as Christians to call these acts and lifestyle choices good, is its self, evil and a violation of my first amendment rights to religion and free speech.

None of this constitutes discrimination, unless you’re a liberal where discrimination is anything that falls short of total and complete acceptance and approval, and bigotry is any opinion they don’t like or happen to disagree with.

Anyhow, support Chick-Fil-A today and Friday, keep the creeps and perv’s out and continue to unashamedly stand up for traditional American values, morals and our way of life!

5 Comments leave one →
  1. Alejandro Barrera permalink
    August 6, 2012 3:55 am

    I want to start by saying that this is a great article for those who agree with you; however for those of us that agree with homosexual marriage, one particular claim seems a bit outrageous. First, the reason used to deny marriage to gay and lesbian couples is religion. This excuse is in no way constitutional, and should therefore not be allowed, however, since no reason has to be given to vote a certain way, ignorance through the word of God is being used to deny rights to people. Going deeper into this biblical reason it is understood that the bible calls the homosexual life-style an “abomination”. The bible also happens to condemn to death working (or destroying) on the Sabbath, condemns to death the act of fornication, and makes other outrageous claims. People and organizations often choose to selectively read the bible to deny others their rights.

    Secondly, your claim that legalizing it makes YOU tell your religion that it is normal is just out of this world. If you do not approve of it because of your belief *selective belief* on your religion we can do nothing but agree to disagree because you are entitled to your opinion as I am entitled to mine. Legalizing what should have never been illegal (such as inter-racial marriage) is in no way making you turn your back on your religion. Your statement is basically saying that, in the times when inter-racial marriage was illegal, because you are a racist this kind of behavior should be kept illegal or it would make you a non-racist. There are still racist people out there who believe that kind of marriage is wrong, and they are entitled to their opinion. I am in no way suggesting that you are racist, I just wanted to make the connection to relatable topic. I got a bit off-topic there, going back to your statement, and I am particularly talking about “…forced to say that homosexuality is normal and just as good as being heterosexual, or you know, normal.” In a nation where our founding fathers intended to keep church and state separate denying the rights of others sounds outrageous. You not only selectively belief in the bible but also in the constitution and the Bill of Rights. I am assuming, by the name of the website, that you also opposed the signing of the UN Arms Trade Treaty. If I may ask, why are you bringing religion into politics when the first amendment so clearly states the separation of church and state and so viciously defend the second amendment to bear arms? you are essentially using both texts to your advantage, I am not expecting an answer although one would be nice.

    • August 6, 2012 11:54 am

      Hey! And welcome to my blog.

      I am always happy to engage in serious debate with folks so you get your reply!

      Please keep in mind, I basically have two rules, you have to accurate and you have to be civil.

      Right so moving on.

      Ok you are nearly ½ right at the top but you don’t quite get there. I don’t oppose homosexual marriage because of RELIGION, I oppose it because fundamentally I believe in absolutes and an absolute, objective, independent from me or anyone else, set of moral principles that is simply true for everyone whether or not they choose to recognize it. Those morals are indeed rooted in the Bible but they aren’t of themselves “religion” or church or whatever but a part of a comprehensive worldview and they are also the basic moral principles that our country was founded on, Judeo-Christian morals and values.

      Where do your values and morals come from?

      This is the key question that the rest of our discussion must hinge, you can scream “sperationofchurchandstate” at me and I’ll shake my head and say “notactuallyintheconstitution” and we will go around and around forever. BUT that isn’t really going to get us anywhere. The issue isn’t so simply cut as that, all laws are ultimately based upon a moral code and to have a useful conversation we must decide from where our morals and thus our laws ultimately spring.

      I want to as an aside address two or three other points you made.

      First you claimed twice that I am selectively reading and applying scripture, and once that I am selectively reading and applying the constitution.

      I am pretty sure that means you don’t understand basic bible study, or any sort of what biblical Christians believe, or what the New Testament says about the law, I could be wrong and you might just hale from a church that believes in textual criticism or some other form of liberal theology in which case we have another who debate to have haha. But for a quick primer, we believe that the Old Testament law, which you pointed out is pretty harsh, was not eliminated but fulfilled by Christ. We operate under a new covenant or a new relationship with God that wasn’t available to man before the death and resurrection of Christ. One of the really cool things is that we aren’t beholden to the law now, we do still believe it is true and serves as a definition of righteousness. Ergo no one is calling on mass executions of homosexuals because the Bible Tells Us So! Haha.

      I believe every word and passage of the Bible is literally true as the author intended them to be.

      I would also point out that you never actually say what I’m not reading, believing or applying from the bible or the constitution. I am very, very consistent in how I divide and apply both.

      The first Amendment doesn’t have anything in it about the separation of Church and State, it is about the government creating a national church like England had for so long, its very simple and very ignored these days. Neither the idea nor the phrase “separation of church and state” exist in the constitution in any form, nor was it in the mind of the signatories at the time.

      Because we have no government, armed with power, capable of contending with human passions, unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.
      John Adams Oct 11, 1798

      Second, you can’t just make up a right man!
      The right to marry whatever you want simply doesn’t exist! It isn’t a natural right, it isn’t a constitutional right and it certainly isn’t a biblical right. Or put another way, I can’t come set up shop on your back 40 and say that when you kick me off you’re violating my right to own a small business!

      No one is trying to stop homosexuals from living how they want, we just don’t want to be forced to say it’s OK, or to have it taught to our kids as OK. And fundamentally I guess we don’t want our government to say that its normal.

      Finally you asked this:

      why are you bringing religion into politics

      Because my friend, every single thing you believe has a direct affect upon every other thing you believe. Anyone who says they separate their religion from their politics, either doesn’t believe in their religion, or doesn’t care about their politics.

      • Alejandro Barrera permalink
        August 6, 2012 3:17 pm

        You are right in that nowhere in the constitution it says the specific phrase “separation of church and state”. However, our founding fathers did intend to keep them separate as it would create a whole set of problems in a nation so diverse as ours. To base all of our laws out of one single text or bible is not what our founding fathers intended for. As Thomas Jefferson put it “Christianity…(has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on man. …Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and importers led by Paul, the first great corrupter of the teaching of Jesus.” I want to clarify that I am a Christian and come from a very religious background, I was born in Colombia, which is a country made up of around 90% roman Catholics. I am a firm believer in democracy and in different beliefs, I am glad that you have other reasons and not just use the bible as a shield for this issue. What I intended to do in my last comment was to point out everything that I say to those who use the bible in such issues and homosexual marriage and abortion. I do not believe in abortion, not because I know the bible is against it and it is a terrible sin, but because I am afraid that women will accuse men of rape and will therefore get an abortion, and in the time it takes to prove it was not rape the baby would have been killed. To better phrase it, I do not believe in the “it is my body” argument.

        I just wanted to make sure that you were not using the bible to shield personal beliefs that you would still have had no bible ever been written. I recognize your choice to be against homosexual marriage, I have had to come to terms with my whole family on this issue as there are only two of us who support it, and the rest are firmly against it.

        You are also right in that marriage is not a right. But it arguably seems to be one, I, as a straight male can pretty much marry anyone as long as it not incest. I do believe incest is wrong, not because the bible tells me so but because of genetic risks that comes from incest. I can pretty much walk down the street and find a willing girl to marry me and marry her. There are so many infuriating cases of people who barely know each other, marry and leave so many children without one parent. In the mean advocate groups fight for this privilege which is given to others as a right, no one has the right the to tell me who I can and cannot marry. I also do believe that even if homosexuals are not given the privilege to marry, they should at least be able to get the perks that come from marriage, such as being included in their partners health insurance. This, I know will never fly by as it is an economic upset for companies. I am firm believer that such laws as amendment one in North Carolina, which not only makes this sort of marriage illegal (as it already was) but takes back benefits of legal unions, which is clearly immoral, not only can they not get married but you are taking benefits as well, further punishing their life-style! I do not believe that you can make a case for amendment one without expressing hate for such life-style as amendment one punishes it. Imagine that your wife or husband (assuming you are married) has a terrible accident at home and when the ambulance comes you are not allowed to get in it because you have no legal status, you are basically a friend that happened to be there at the wrong time! God willing you and your family are safe, I just wanted to put it in perspective. I appreciate the time you took to write back.

  2. August 6, 2012 4:57 pm

    Just keep in mind, every law is based in some form of abject morality that is true for everyone.

    You appeal to genetics even though you point out that you were raised Roman Catholic, you still fall back on a form of science to defend your belief that incest is wrong. You put genetics above religion, and for many people a nebulous idea of “SCIENCE” becomes their religion. We all have something we put our ultimate faith in, some of us just accept that. Buy why bar siblings from getting married? They can legally co-habit and do … whatever. But they are BARRED from their RIGHT to get married it’s ALL ABOUT LOVE MAN!!!! WHY ALL THE HATE?!?!?!?!?!?

    LOL I of course jest but the point remains, there must be laws and there must be standards, general biblical standards have worked for the USA for well over 200 years, and helped to make us the strongest, richest nation on earth. I vote with stick with what works.

    I would also point out that every law punishes behavior the government has decided is undesirable, why should our “lifestyle choice” be any different especially when it’s simply a choice?


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